Subject: Australian
Government's Post Sept 11 assessment of terrorist threat to Australia
0900 hours Canberra, Australia
I began the discussion by pointing out to [name deleted] that the Australian government was reliant on advice from statutory authorities and of the Attorney General of the day. He asked whether official Austgovt statements concerning the threat assessment were widely held. I pointed out to him that the AustGovts reluctance to publicly state that there were six terrorist groups in Australia and the number of current inquiries was a political decision which had been carefully considered. He then offered me a file of the Aust Attorney General's public statements since 11th September 2001 in which the Attorney General denied that there was a terrorist threat in Australia. PM Howard had also made identical statements.
I turned the discussion to assessments of US intelligence performance and he showed distinct unease. The Bureau was no closer to solving the anthrax case than immediately after the attack. I asked him whether the anthrax attack(s) were a diversion from investigations into 09/11 or evidence of foreign government involvement. He stated that he regretted he could not inform me as to the state of progress but intimated no progress had been made. We discussed CIA’s field performance and he told me that the failure to capture OBL was rankling the USGovt. I inquired as to the future of DCI TENET. He then indicated that he wanted to speak off the record. I declined the offer.
TRANSCRIPTION OF CONVERSATION
BETWEEN
AUSTRALIAN INTELLIGENCE OFFICER [NAME DELETED] AND USIO
23:01 Canberra, Australia. Conversation begins:
[Exchange of greetings]
AIO: That was a waste of time! [Expletive deleted]
USIO: [expletive] Did you bring the scotch? [Sounds of ice tray being emptied, glasses, sound of running water, etc]
USIO: What’s happening in your area?
AIO: It's official; there is no terrorist threat in Australia.
USIO: mmmmm. [Phonetic].
AIO: What’s happening in the Bureau on the CI side?
USIO: It’s poisonous. The atmosphere is poisonous. We had the HANSSEN case [reference to KGB mole in FBI/CI] and now it's coming out that he provided software to the Russians which enable Osama [Bin Laden] to take counter measures against our tracking. Failing. Bungling. Incompetent. That’s the FBI. I can tell you it hurts - what about the CT side here?
AIO: We’re into window dressing as usual. On the CI side - the nest of moles which romped under the DG’s nose. All my [inaudible] I have been told it can’t happen here that they were all good blokes, Harvey, Ted, Pol Pot Wrigley, the same.[ long pause in tape ]
USIO: The Drunken one? Hasn’t he retired?
AIO: How do you tell the difference? [laughter] The same. Some of us think the [name deleted] he was the ring master. Remember ZEMSKOV [reference to Valery Nikolayevich ZEMSKOV Line R Officer/ Minister Counsellor attached to KGB Residency in Canberra ACT] well he was debriefing the DFAT [name inaudible] who was contacting him. ZEMSKOV made the pitch to [name deleted] and guess what... DFAT leaked our assessment to the Canberra Press Gallery to make him look good. I don’t think you were here for all that.
USIO: What a set up! So Z was running this guy?
[Five minute break in recording]
AIO: There were so many cases that he blew.He was called in to CO [Central Office] and walked out half an hour later We’re still waiting for. [inaudible] SOCRATES case in the States was a Aussie, his wife was an Iraqi asset [ A records check is being made to identify SOCRATES who is believed deceased.]
USIO: [interrupting] Wasn’t he in the Residency incident in London? The [phonetic] in charge of the [inaudible] in the early 1990s? I remember he came over to see us.
AIO: He made sure of that. He claimed that KALUGIN (Oleg KALUGIN former Head FCDKGB MOSCOW] was giving us disinformation, which of course suited him and them! Anyway, the legal case fizzed in court. Funny that. We looked bad. We had the Feds quietly crawling all over us, mikes cameras, for months. We didn’t even know. They had vision of [name deleted] putting documents into his coat pocket, cut for purpose. A family affair. All liked. None trustworthy. If you are liked in Australia, that’s good enough! The Feds ran round boasting that there were nearly twenty Russian spies in the organisation and claiming that the Labor government called off Operation L [LIVER] in the interests of damage control. For once they got it right but we couldn’t it all goes back a long way [inaudible]. I can tell you guys will never ... the whole [obscure].
USIO: AMES blew CIA Moscow out of the water. HANSSEN blew us out of the water and you’re telling me that here [expletive deleted] By the way what happened to Paul [surname deleted] I see that HANSSEN’S first point of call was to [unclear, but probably Victor Ivanovich CHERKASHIN Line KR Chief Soviet Embassy Washington DC] in the Washington Residency. He was head line. CI. Was he a friend of Paul’s? We know he was here.
AIO: Later. This is too deep now. CHERKASHIN is another story. Read this. January this year. He is against the War on Terrorism. Good timing as usual. He says it’s fraught with danger.
Reads from text: Quotation begins: A serious issue for the international community is whether a country that poses a significant threat to US national interests should automatically be classified as a terrorist threat’. Quotation ends here:
[A check of the accuracy of the above text is underway]
USIO: Paul! Not for him! I think had a good exit didn’t he. I mean on the books and all. What a mess! Do you have anything on paper on SUSEMIHL [a reference to recent FBI George TROFIMOV case]? He came here. Paul. He is one lucky son of a bitch or he ..., you must have
[Three (3) minute break in tape] Not a matter of if but when?
[Ten minute gap in tape. Subjects have adjourned to bathroom]
AIO: Look, penetration of the Australian Intelligence community. [Inaudible] Organization [A reference to the Australian Security Intelligence Organization] is a nightmare. Let’s drop it for the moment. Right now terorism is the thing. We have an OBL network, deep in Australia Sydney, South Australia. I left the [inaudible]
USIO: Thanks. We won’t forget this. These 1500 cases are they?
AIO: Over [Inaudible] All post 9/11.Sydney is the hub.
USIO: Every time we talk I hear Sydney, Sydney, the place is hyperactive. Who is handling the interrogations?
AIO: The Organization but it’s hopeless. If my group want something fast we call in the Feds. They carry. There are good guys in the Organization but they are not the favourites. The atmosphere.
USIO: Of management? Yes. Tell me. Godamm know-alls, never listen to the troops. We have the groundtruth. So the best have left, leaving or thinking of it?
AIO: Something like that. 1500 plus. Langley will
[break in transmission].
[Four minute gap]
USIO: Thanks for this. Great! Otherwise we would never [inaudible].
[Conversation ends; part two to follow.]